Let Kentucky Vote! mystery solved

The mystery of who set up a  Let Kentucky Vote! web site has been resolved.

Not surprisingly, it is affiliated with those pushing for expanded gambling, including the Kentucky Equine Education Project and several chambers of commerce around the state.

According to a news release, the group is a coalition made up of KEEP, Greater Louisville Inc., Greater Owensboro Chamber of Commerce, Jefferson County Teachers' Association, Kentucky Chamber of Commerce, United Food and Commercial Workers Local 227, and United Food and Commercial Workers IN-KY Council.

The website, www.letkyvote.com, is chock-full of talking points on dollars Kentuckians already wager, casino research, taxes and jobs in other states, and a link to send your legislator a message.

According to the site, the group is "a Kentucky based non-profit organization."

Patrick Neely, executive director of KEEP, said the coalition plans mailings and e-mailings across the state to lobby for Gov. Steve Beshear's casino gambling legislation.

- Janet Patton

Comments

[Shocked!!]

I am shocked our Jefferson County Teachers are supporting Casinos!! They should KNOW BETTER!! They should not be fooled by this Blackmail! I know they don't want their budgets cut, but surely they are intelligent enough to know the damage it will risk doing to our kids! Surely they know just to wait for Beshear's Plan B! Surely they know he CAN'T get away with cutting everybodys budget like he has! Surely they know the fix would only be temporary!!! Shame on you teachers!!

[Baffled]

Does anyone know the why Representative Mike Cherry hasn't brought up HB 105 again so all of us Republicans and Democrats alike can see exactly what our government is spending. So many of the other states are having real transparency. Beshear promised we would get it so I don't understand why Cherry hasn't brought it up again.Please email him at Mike.Cherry@lrc.ky.gov and ask him when he is going to bring that up for us again so we can have true transparency too. Or email your legislators from this site-----http://www.lrc.ky.gov/house/hsemembers.htm

[Kelsey]

Teachers, Firefighters, Police, Unions, State Governmrnt Retirement systems, State Employees. this is just a few of the groups that are lining up to help the Casino Bill pass in both the Legislature and the vote. These are your working class taxpayers. The same ones that are saying NO to the big oil companies and No to the Republican Party. They are Saying Yes to Obama and the new wave of change that is taking over this country. Goodby to the rightwing way of thinking and the War that is taking the lives of our men and woman in uniform. These are the people that want Casinos in Ky.
Go Obama.
Kelsey.

[There he is again]

Kelsey, how much do you get paid to lie to Kentuckians? You always give us a bunch of bull and everybody knows it.

[nothing but the truth]

Perhaps the group should change its name to "Let Kentucky change its form of government". We are a republic, not a democracy. (Of course the U.S. Constitution guarantees that every state will be a republic, but I digress).

I'd blame this continued ignorance on the school system, but even supposedly educated people continue to refer to our government as a democracy. We elect representatives to study the issues and make informed decisions for us.

If the constitution needs to be amended to allow casino gaming, let our representatives tell us, and stand on that. They shouldn't hide behind the un-American way of just "let Kentucky vote". That is not how America is supposed to function. Which is what the casino people are counting on.

[NoHandoutsToRacetracks]

I think casinos would be good for the state because of the revenue they would generate, and because we already have casinos all along our borders. But I probably would not vote for this current proposal because the handouts to the racetracks are ridiculous. They don't deserve it.

[Casinos take from the poor to give to the rich!]

Casinos will only take from the poor to give to the RICH! Beshear is not really proven himself to be a man of his word, so why should we trust him now?

[JW]

The article did not say teachers, nor firefighters in the rank and file were supporting casinos. It is their unions who are willing to go to bed with the devil with the false promises of the benefits of casinos. If you talk to the average joes, most are adamantly opposed to casinos because they offer no long term solutions for fiscal management. It's pretty simple, if an idiot (not idot) like Kelsey is supporting casinos, that should be an example enough of them being a bad idea. When's Beshear going to release his and KEEP's economic analysis of the casino proposition for debate? It won't happen because the proposal is full of holes and the economic windfalls are not there. Beshear is moving on the belief that if you keep people ignorant, they will never be wise to the disaster that will befall them.

[Steve Magruder (I, not D or R)]

With chambers of commerce behind this, this group is clearly bipartisan in nature. Also recall that a business run by two Louisville Republicans on the Metro Council registered the domain for the site.

Is the Senate not as lost as Williams suggests?

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

The groups that have signed on to LET THE PEOPLE VOTE are the groups that will benefit most if the CASINO ISSUE makes it out of committee.

This, intellectual disgusting, preference to let the people vote, is one sided. Go to the sight and look at their claims.

In a Democracy the idea of voting includes laying out both sides of an argument.

LETS VOTE DOES NOT.

I am not able to understand how these service organizations, except for KEEP, do not want to allow rebuttals to the claims that are made on the web sight.

That is Democracy. Let the people vote.

PEOPLE, ALL 60,000 OF YOU, THAT WILL BECOME COMPULSIVE GAMBLERS WITHIN FIVE YEARS, FIND OUT MORE BEFORE YOU BUY INTO THIS LETS VOTE DEAL.

This is the same old, same old the politico have been peddling since Beshear was elected. If we are to LET THE PEOPLE VOTE, then I challenge the LETS VOTE organization, to open up a comment page for OTHERS to express their opinion on this issue, but they don't want that, such action might hinder the support for this issue.

And, you know what, THEY ARE RIGHT.

So, lets see both sides of an issue.

Open up your WEB SIGHT for comments, please.

JIM ANDERSON STIVERS
FRANKFORT, KY.

[John]

Took a call from apollster asking my opinion about casions

First question -- should the amendment come to the voters for a vote.
I replied -- Yes

second and last question -- Would you support or oppose the casino gaming amendment?
I replied -- oppose

[John]

I forgot to add -- the poll was from the Let
Kentucky Vote group

[Kelsey]

Yes-71%
No-29%
These are the numbers on the new WHAS-11 poll taken in the past two weeks. LET THE PEOPLE VOTE.
Go Obama
Kelsey.

[nothing but the truth]

Jim Stivers: You have done a good job of opposing casinos. I think that you and I have similiar opinions on the issue of casino gamblig.

However, America and Kentucky are not democracies. They are republics. We do not decide important issues with "Let the people vote". We "let the people vote" for our leaders who are then supposed to take the time to fully inform themselves on the issues and make the decisions for us.

If we don't like how our representatives are making their decisions or the decisions they make, then we need to "let the people vote them out of office". In any event, keep up the good work.

[Mio]

Nothing But The Truth - you are absolutely correct that we live in a Republic, and that our elected officials ultimately make the decisions for us. On statutory matters. But not on constitutional matters. The only way to alter or amend the state constitution is by a vote of the people (if our elected officials decide to give them that opportunity). So on a constitutional question, like this one, it is entirely appropriate to put it in the hands of the voters, and ask them whether they want to amend the constitution or not.

[Philip]

Amendments to our state or national constitutions must undergo a rigorous vetting process, first in the legislature and, if it passes that hurdle, to the voters. Framers did not want the constitution changed on a whim or for expediency's sake, or they would have made it easier to do!

KEEP and the supporters of casino gambling are doing their best to use any argument possible to get over the first hurdle, the state legislature. I personally think it is disingenuous, and indeed wrong, for any legislator to simply pass the buck. They should vote for or against this measure on its merits. No one should hide behind the hollow argument "let the people decide". The people should only get a chance to vote on measures that the required majority of legislators approve and recommend. Otherwise, we will be flooded with frivolous amendments that could be detrimental to our state in the long run.

If casino gambling makes it to the ballot, you can be sure that the proponents will do their best to "buy" its approval through a barrage of media ads paid for by the casino moguls. Is that what some of you call "democracy"?! Sounds more like "demo-crazy!"

A rational analysis of the effects of casinos on our society clearly shows that it is a bad deal! Jim Stivers has done an excellent job citing statistics and scientific studies of the social ills that result from the introduction of casinos. The casino proponents have no such supportive data. Indeed, the pro-casino bloggers here mostly fire back insults rather than factual information.

It appears that Beshear, KEEP, and many legislators want casinos for self-serving reasons. They appear determined to plunge ahead and force this upon us because they think they have the money and political clout to do it. I would encourage every loyal citizen to search your own heart and mind about this issue, and don't be unduly influenced by your party affiliation or the propaganda intented to lull you into supporting something that could forever negatively change Kentucky, and give power over us to money-hungry, out-of-state gambling vultures!

[Truth]

So well said Philip.Thankyou.

[Elizabeth]

That was so well said, Philip. Thank you.

[nothing but the truth]

Jim Stivers:

I repsectfully disagree. The constitutional amendment cannot be put on the ballot until two thirds of both houses of the legislature approve it. We are paying our representatives to understand and make determinations as to the appropriateness of amending the constitution.

Legislators should not pass the amendment on the un-American idea of "let the people decide". That is not how our government is supposed to function. Any member of the legislature who votes to put the amendment on the ballot because they want the people to vote, without making their own public determination, is irresponsbile and not doing what he or she was elected to do.

Simply passing the matters on to the voters to decide is an abbrogation of responsibility. Our Republic cannot survive on such cowardice.

[Kelsey]

If the people that are against the Casino bill feel that it wont pass vote by the people then why are you so determined not to get it on the ballot. If you really felt that way and wanted to be fair to the people of Ky, should you not let the people vote? Do you think people are so stupid that they cannot decide there own will? People, this is why it is so insane to not put the issue on the ballot. If the majority of Ky does not want it, than so be it.
Go Obama.
Kelsey.

[JW]

Kelsey, your post almost made sense. Unfortunately, your "close, personal friend" Beshear is in so deep with the casino folks that regardless of what the voters decide, it will be railroaded through. Why else would Mr. Yung purchase a tract of land for $7.0 million in Northern KY when the land was for sale at $4.5 million? I'll tell you why, he has already been promised a casino license for the site by someone in Frankfort. Remember the overwhelming majority vote by the citizens to remove the property tax on vehicles? I'm still paying the property tax, are you?

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

If the members of the General Assembly made decisions based on logic, then there would be no GENERAL ASSEMBLY and it would not take so long to cover an issue.

I agree with TRUTH! The problem is most members of the General Assembly are too busy, "licking their chops" on the new windfall of money, they hope the CASONOS will bring.

Representative Stumbo said it, plain and simply and is trying to protect his constituency. And that is rural areas, where not much work is available, would be the first to fleeced a the GOLDEN DOME of GAMBLING.

Why won LET KENTUCKY VOTE open up their WEB PAGE FOR " o t h e r " comments?

Rather than those comments that have been spoon fed to the political assistance this administration needs to unleash this mental illness, on what will be, in five years, sixty thousand Kentucky Citizens that will be GAMBLING ADDICTS.

And, what do we do to assist those people with recovery and the assistance needed to KEEP FAMILIES TOGETHER.

This issue is very very troubling. And that is the reason it is in trouble. Is this portion of our KENTUCKY population, THROW AWAYS? HMMMMM?

Kelsy, I know you will read this but get to the bottom of the post, for this is the most informative note I have seen on this blog.

Posted by: nothing but the truth | February 16, 2008 at 10:26 PM

Legislators should not pass the amendment on the un-American idea of "let the people decide". That is not how our government is supposed to function. Any member of the legislature who votes to put the amendment on the ballot because they want the people to vote, without making their own public determination, is irresponsible and not doing what he or she was elected to do.

Simply passing the matters on to the voters to decide is an abrogation of responsibility. Our Republic cannot survive on such cowardice.

Posted by: nothing but the truth | February 16, 2008 at 10:26 PM

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

This todays editorial from the Courier Journal.

Help wanted

To put it kindly, Gov. Steve Beshear's long-awaited plan for expanded gambling needs work. Lots of work. And no doubt his plan will be modified as it moves through the next phase of the legislative process, in the House.

But at least the Governor has offered a starting point and has confronted some realities Kentuckians need to face up to: a lack of revenue for our roads and schools as Kentuckians cross the border to gamble, which, of course, helps other states improve their roads and schools; the need to give Kentucky's horse industry new ways to solidify their place in racing and breeding at a time when other states are taking them on.

But the particulars of any plan to expand gambling matter -- to folks who favor the concept as well as to folks who are still on the fence. And, unfortunately, the particulars of the Governor's plan disappoint.

Mr. Beshear chose the wrong approach: one that starts out with too many casinos -- up to 12 in a state that might support half that amount -- and with, as he put it, "among the highest tax rates on casino profits in any state."

That combination means no big, international casino company is likely to come to Kentucky to invest in a true destination resort. So instead of a few complexes with entertainment, hotels, shopping, golf and restaurants designed to get the affluent from other states to leave their money behind, we're likely to end up with lots of big, sterile rooms full of slots that cater to locals who can't really afford to lose.

The Governor's plan plays into the hands of those who oppose expanded gambling because it is a regressive way to raise revenue. And, by the way, one of the challenges any plan faces is that it's not just social conservatives who oppose casinos. Some of the most liberal members of the General Assembly do, too. Their bleeding hearts are appalled by what they see as preying on the poor.

That's why the particulars are important: A plan that would result in a few complexes to lure the rich can be justified. One that scatters small facilities all over the state is a harder sell.

Consider the reaction of Rep. Greg Stumbo, D-Prestonsburg, who generally favors expanded gambling. He said, "I can't be for a casino in Floyd County," where the Governor has proposed putting one. "Our population is too poor to support a casino."

The House now gets a chance to make this proposal better. Its members should think bigger than the Governor did.

This is an issue where less is definitely more. Fewer casinos should draw bigger investors -- and more political support.

end!

It is really hard to tell, what this editorial means, other than, we need big operators, with big money, to fleece our citizens.

Why would the Courier Journal not be in favor of CASINOS, it is the home one of the most powerful lobbies in the state CHURCHILL DOWNS.
jas in frankfort

[JW]

Mr. Stivers, I may be mistaken but I think you spent your past life working for the KY Economic Development. Since the Chamber of Commerce is supporting casinos, what statistics have you been able to find regardless employee absenteeism, theft, embezzlement, etc. from "mainstream" types of business, including manufacturing due to the arrival of casinos?

[Kelsey]

The most highest priced treasure in the USA is "freedom" and the "right to vote," make no mistake. So the true question is why are a hand full of Legislators not wanting to "Let the People Vote" The well written article in todays C-J with a photo of David Williams with a Turkey Crown on his head is the reason, David Williams is an idot. If you dont take the C-J it is worth the price of $1.50 today to go and purchase your copy and read. Also for your information Mr Stivers, you are being misleading by making comments that Churchill Downs is not for a Casino, if you read todays C-J it will tell you on the front page that they are trying to determine the location, they do want the Churchill Downs site but need to do what is best for there stockholders and downtown Louisville, since there popular Mayor is for Casions.
Go Obama.
Kelsey.

[JIM ANDERSON STIVERS]

The fact is: Three million will not cover the costs of treatment. This shows how little the administration understands the negative side of compulsive gambling.
JAS in Frankfort....

Fiscal Analysis of CASINO GAMBLING.

State Expenditures: DHMH estimates that this bill would cost $18.8 million on an annual basis to implement. This estimate includes $17.6 million for the full cost of treatment for 10,000 patients (20% of the estimated number of compulsive gamblers in Maryland), and $1.2 million for administrative costs and advisory council expenses. The estimate assumes that the cost of compulsive gambling treatment is comparable to that for substance abuse treatment.

The Department of Fiscal Services (DFS) advises that while the costs could be substantial, the actual impact would depend on (1) whether the State would be required to pay for the full cost of treatment for compulsive gamblers; (2) the number of people the program would be required to serve; (3) the extent to which compulsive gambling treatment compares to substance abuse treatment in terms of cost, length of stay, and effectiveness; and (4) the extent to which compulsive gambling treatment is available to serve Maryland residents.

The bill requires the Secretary of DHMH to promulgate regulations regarding the eligibility of individuals requesting treatment under this program.

These regulations would determine the magnitude and cost of the program. For illustrative purposes, the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Administration’s proposed fiscal 1998 budget includes $56.6 million for substance abuse treatment for some 50,000 clients and $3.3 million for administration.

Local Effect: To the extent that grants are made to local governments to establish and operate programs for compulsive gamblers, local revenues and expenditures could increase.

Small Business Effect: The bill would favorably affect nonprofit compulsive gambling treatment providers to the extent that the State provides treatment grant funds. In addition to increasing revenues for existing compulsive gambling treatment providers, the bill may promote the development of new ones.

Information Source(s): Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, Department of Fiscal Services, Compulsive Gambling Center, Inc.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

DO CASINOS IMPACT LOCAL BUSINESS AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY ARE SHORTED, BY GAMBLING MONEY IN THEIR GEOGRAPHY?

Read this one:

Casinos are sometimes characterized as defilers, islands, deniers, competers, and deadbeats

(Goodman 1994). They have been called islands because of a tendency to draw workers from outside the immediate community (Rephann et al. 1996).

In a young and competitive industry, they can also vanish practically overnight, prompting some opponents to call them deserters. As with any young enterprise, the success of a casino depends on a variety of locational factors, including proximity to
urban markets, infrastructure, and availability of other tourist attractions (Eadington 1995).

Casino gambling is held to attract all kind of malicious and perfidious activity (Friedman, Hakim and Weinblatt
1989; Goodman 1994).

It may also tempt residents to gamble excessively. If the persistent gamblers are
disproportionately financially insecure then casino gambling may aggravate poverty, family dissolution,crime, and other social vices.

New casinos are often opposed by local merchants because of their deleterious effects ("cannibalization") on home-grown restaurant and entertainment businesses, which may not be able to compete with the lower prices and product differentiation offered by casinos.

If these forces act all at once, then a casino can be an expensive proposition because of the social service expenditures required to redress the newly unemployed and newly addicted.

Jim Anderson Stivers
"I just wanna say!"

This is a factual report.

[Gadfly]

Readers, read the article http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080217/NEWS0101/802170479
Make your own judgment to Kelsey's comments. The shareholder's of Churchill Downs prefer an alternative Louisville location for the casino from the race track.

Kelsey, why is it so hard for you to be truthful?

[Kelsey]

Please go buy a copy of todays C-J. Front page. Churchill Downs looks at track area on Central Ave for Casino and will discuss other sites but the downs is most wanted by management due to not need local Rep approvals. Gadfly is like Stivers, they and Forgy love to twist and spin the truth. But if they were not afraid they would "Let the People Vote" as the state constitution says. I for one do not need a Legislature to make my decision for me and I know it is buring up the other Ky taxpayers to think that David Williams and Company should make up the taxpayers mind when they dont have enough good common since to not take an elegal trip to Turkey.
Go Obama.
Kelsey.

[Kelsey]

Also I might add, I dont like to tell my personal business on this blog, but I have a large amount of Churchill Downs Stock and I am for the Central Ave Location for the Casino, now go put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Go Obama.
Kelsey.

[Can the H-L get an answer for this?]

As the casino bill now stands, is the 15.65% for purses, breeders, etc that comes out of the track-linked casinos, included in the "up to 35% tax rate that will go to the Commonwealth of Kentucky". Or is it in addition to??

If it is in "addition to" the effective tax rate for track-based casinos will potentially be equal to the free-standing ones. That is something I can't imagine horse interests tolerating.

If it is "included" then the state only gets, at max, 19% in taxes if it goes for the high rate of 35% overall.

Since the 15.65% for horse interests only comes from the track-based casinos, it is in their definite interest not to have free-standing ones. Except maybe one for the man who funded their campaign. Since his would compete with Turfway, not Churchill or Keeneland, the real power brokers would probably consider that a good horse trade.

I know people have debated this question, but I'd like to hear the definitive answer. The difference in amount generated to the state is enormous. Especially if the "freestanding" cost is so high that it results in only track-based ones generating only a max of 19% to the state.

[Kelsey]

If you go to the Frankfort State Journal website today you will find a letter to the editor by Mr Stivers. He is the only anti casino person that sent a letter. What does that tell you. "Let the People Vote"
Go Obama.
Kelsey.

[JW]

Kelsey, it looks as though you have been the one smoking "something" in you pipe. The previous posters are trying to educate the voting public, instead of listening to the prejudiced and biased opinions of Kelsey. If in fact, you do own a large amount of stock in Churchill Downs, your opinion in biased and you are looking to screw the rest of the state while you may have some type of financial windfall. This is exactly the same approach Beshear is taking and the majority of the state knows how honest Beshear is.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

Kelsey, Good day to ya!

FYI.

I spoke to Senator Julian Carroll last week and mentioned your name. I didn't think you would mind, since you have repeatedly informed us as to HOW WELL CONNECTED YOU ARE.

Senator Carroll did not acknowledge knowing you. HMMMMMM, . . . you better talk to him about that, and let him confirm you are his close friend and the two of you THINK ALIKE.

And thanks for mentioning my LTE.

SAY IT AIN’T SO.

Reports I read say that the current administration may not need a constitutional amendment to establish slot machines and gambling. Some claim the amendment for the LOTTERY covers this action and it can be done by the Governor with an Executive Order.

I don’t expect our Governor would do that, but . . . if this part of the old amendment is true, then the door may be open, even without a vote. But, first the amendment has to make it out of committee. And right now that is very suspect. A lot will be known when former AG, Stumbo returns to the General Assembly and we see whom he is “carrying water for?” With Stumbo, still, perhaps considering a run for the US Senate, it will be interesting to see if he takes a side. H e would be smart to pass on it. I would say Wide Screen Williams, ( you know he as new big screen TV in his Senate Office. Will Stumbo use his craft to delay or defeat the issue? He knows the parliamentary procedures very well.

Have you asked your Senator or Representative how they will vote on the issue? Ask how they feel about THE PUBLIC POLICY OF FINANCING GOVERNMENT THRU GAMBLING??

For this writer, it is bad PUBLIC POLICY. The people who can least afford to loose . . . are the VICTIMS.

If you want to email them, go to the Kentucky LRC web sight and you will find an alphabetical listing of our Senators and Representatives.

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/

Jim Anderson Stivers

[JW]

Mr. Stivers, you have brought up what I have alluded to in previous posts. There is enough leeway in the lottery provision for interpretation that Beshear MAY issue an EO for the adoption of the casinos. This could be done regardless of what the voting public decides. Though it would probably be political suicide for Beshear to do so, he is in bed so deep with the casino factions, that may be the only alternative he has left himself with these groups.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

JW,

You are right, I did lift this from a blog post, but did not have a name to contribute to. I thought the statement has some real substance to it, thus I passed it on in an LTE.

JW , I did ask Jack Conway for a reply to this and he did not reply. As a matter of fact, I have written several Emails to Mr. Conway with no replies. All were about questionable issues that I felt he should look into. At this point it looks like Jack Conway is an administration guy and will do little to connect and dots , one may send to him. I would say, I am very disappointed.

If he did not have time to reply, then he could have assigned it to a staff person.

jas in frankfort

[Kudos to JAS]

Jim, major kudos to you for calling Kelsey's bluff. If those VIPs did know him they wouldn't admit it. By the time the cock crows, they will deny knowing Kelsey thrice.

There was never any doubt about Conway being a Democrat hack. If Chandler had been governor, do you think Stumbo would have investigated claims of personnel violations? Of course not! In this state, Democrat hacks look out for one another. The only officials in danger of being investigated by Conway are Grayson and Farmer.

[JIM ANDERSON STIVERS]

Kudo,

Yes, you are right. If it had been an R the previous AG would have been all over the issue.

But, not this AG, he is an administration AG and his opinions will be mostly favorable for the current administration.

This, to me, shows a lack of leadership in his position. How safe are we, from thugs and criminal when it looks like AG Conway is going to pick and choose that which he will challenge. And, to me the issues I addressed to him, were valid.

After all, it was Steve Beshear that campaign on ethics and all that kind of rhetoric. It was just talk, political talk and perception.

It was Steve Beshear that complained about the big cardboard checks Fletcher was delivering toward the end of his campaign.

Then, we look up and their goes the current administration leaders, off into the wild blue yonder.

Seems a terrible DOUBLE STANDARD!!! But then politicians don't hold themselves to the same standards as families, cause we try (must) to live within our means, without any tricks, or magic or any other perceptions.

Right and wrong does not belong to a party, right and wrong belongs the character and honesty . . .of the person . . . involved.

[Bill Adkins]

Letting Kentucky vote is a worthy cause and the Casino issue is a hell of a lot more important to Kentucky than the last referendum re marriage. Those who voted for that referendum to voted upon but would vote against this referendum coming to a vote are rank and despicable hypocrites.

[Steve Magruder (I, not D or R)]

"Framers did not want the constitution changed on a whim or for expediency's sake"

If the amendment disallowing same-sex marriage wasn't a whim, I don't know what is. And if this amendment wasn't pushed through because of the expedient need to drive up Bush's votes in 2004, I don't know the meaning of expedient.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

Mr. Adkins sir;

Since Congress did not impeach George W. for acts of treason, or at least issuing false statements, I have lost interest in following his Presidency and the inept Congress we have.

Mr. Adkins it has been said, on this blog, you are an ATTORNEY. That being the case, why it is not best to have an open and enthusiastic debate about CASINOS before the issue if placed on the ballot?

I have always thought, when the public is properly informed then we have a real debate.

Have you seen any DOWN SIDE posting by anyone from the Courier, or from any politico that may want to express their opinion in opposition to?

There may be one or two, but the OTHERS are high on the "hens roost" right now, and they won't come down, until the COAST IS CLEAR.

And that is cowardness.

[You're kidding, right?!]

So Magruder: You really think authorizing casino gambling is more important than protecting the sanctity of marriage?! Wow! I am more than a little stunned at that assertion! I think most people would agree that legally defining "marriage" is infinitely more significant and important than an amendment to expand gambling!

[Kelsey]

I have spoken with the Governor and only if the Bill does not go to vote in November will he go the way of EO and only for Slots at the tracks and Bingo Halls, NOT full Casinos. The governor knows that the horse industry is too important to loose in Ky and they cannot compete without the slots driving up the pruses at the tracks. And for you Mr Stivers the LTE was a good one, but the comment about my relationship with my close friend Sen. Carroll is spin again. I have eaten dinner at his home on Scruggs Lane off 421 in Franklin County many times, either you are now not telling the truth or he did not know you to answer your question. Large doners like me keep a low profile, and the people we give money to know that.
Go Obama.
kelsey.

[Bill Adkins]

We ARE debating, Mr. Stivers. And I stand by my point - those who believed the marriage referendum was worthy of a vote should also believe the casino referendum worthy of a vote. Consistency in their reasoning would be unique, however.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

Mr. Adkins,

I don't believe I made a comment about the marriage amendment issue. If I did, I don't recall, then you may be referring to the vote for Casino Amendment, is just as important as the the marriage amendment.

I did not comment on that. It is an entirely separate issue.

My post are meant to give THE OTHER SIDE of this issue and that is the public health issue to Casino Gambling.

Jim Anderson Stivers

[The Anti-Kelsey]

Isn't it amazing. Mr. Stivers has asked Julian Carrol, others have asked Brer, Benji and other top Democrats. No one admits knowing Kelsey. That's extremely odd for someone who is such a large "doner" to the Democrats.

[Is this him?]

KELSEY, EDWARD
48 HEDGEWOOD DR
FRANKFORT, KY, 40601
Employer : CAPITOL REALTY
Occupation : REAL ESTATE
INDIVIDUAL Contribution
$1,000.00 on 03/30/2007
HENRY, STEPHEN for
SLATE - STATEWIDE
PRIMARY - 05/22/2007

KELSEY, EDWARD
48 HEDGEWOOD DRIVE
FRANKFORT, KY, 406010000
Employer : CAPITOL REALTY
Occupation : REAL ESTATE AGENT
INDIVIDUAL Contribution
$1,000.00 on 10/03/2007
BESHEAR, STEVEN for
SLATE - STATEWIDE
PRIMARY - 05/22/2007

If so....

Kelsey supported Steve Henry in the primary. After Henry lost, in an attempt to suck up, Kelsey contributed the max to Beshear's primary account in October, just one month prior to the general election.

If you're such good personal friends with Julian Carroll, why don't I see any contributions to his state Senate campaigns?

[JW]

Looks like Kelsey is more of a boner instead of a doner.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

JW,

I called Edward this morning to confirm this as, I read between the lines of Kelsey's post.

Edward Kelsey is my friend. WE worked together for eight years. The Kelsey family have been very active in Frankfort politics for years. Edward and I were buddies when he worked in the ED Cab.

I also know Edward Kelsey to have a Masters in Business from UK. And, if that is Edward Kelsey, I am insulted he would come to this blog, pretend to be "half a bubble off plum" and try to dispute my postings. I was not aware, if this is the same Kelsey or not, but from the description of what the post has to say, it looks very suspect.

And yes, if it is the Kelsey I know then I am very disappointed that he would try to make a maneuver like this. I hope he returns my phone call.

I have cut and pasted Kelsey's claim to an Email that I sent to Senator Carroll this morning.

Edward if that is you, . . . I am very disappointed, in the manner, n which you try to disguise yourself.

A disillusioned friend!

Jim Anderson Stivers
Frankfort, KY.

[Jim Anderson Stivers]

Senator Carroll has replied and because of his statement, at the end of this post, I feel it fair to post his reply.

This the same story Senator Carroll has been telling me from the beginning. So, KELSEY, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. You have absolutely not credibility and you are a "plant" by someone with the Pro Casino movement.

Jim, honestly I am getting a little impatient having to repeat myself when I have already given you my position and you should know that I don't lie. However, you have provided some new gossip which I will patiently deny.

I don't know what if any Mr. Kelsey may have contributed to my campaign. I have no memory that he did.

I did not say at the Red Mile I was for Casinos.

I said I would put the question on the ballot and I have told you that.

I am not a member at all of KEEP.

The Red Mile could not legally sponsor my event and did not do so. Neither did the so-called gambling establishment. Several of the stockholders of the Red Mile contributed to my campaign.

Joe Costa does not own the Red Mile, but is a stockholder. You know I have not talked to you on the phone and the report of what I said in the State Journal is confusing.

Just for the record I have not said I am for casinos and only a fool would commit to such a bill until he sees the content of the legislation. No contributions by Mr. Kelsey or anyone else will intimidate me into voting a particular way. I would appreciate your straightening out the information on line. Julian

It appears, someone knows how well the KELSEY FAMILY is connected to politics and is using that refernce, of inferal, to make it appear the post are legit and came from Senator Carroll. This is the truth as given to me by SENATOR JULIAN CARROLL.

"Jim, honestly I am getting a little impatient having to repeat myself when I have already given you my position and you should know that I don't lie. However, you have provided some new gossip which I will patiently deny."

I don't know what if any Mr. Kelsey may have contributed to my campaign. I have no memory that he did.

I did not say at the Red Mile I was for Casinos. I said I would put the question on the ballot and I have told you that.

I am not a member at all of KEEP.

The Red Mile could not legally sponsor my event and did not do so. Neither did the so-called gambling establishment. Several of the stockholders of the Red Mile contributed to my campaign.

Joe Costa does not own the Red Mile, but is a stockholder. You know I have not talked to you on the phone and the report of what I said in the State Journal is confusing. Just for the record I have not said I am for casinos and only a fool would commit to such a bill until he sees the content of the legislation.

No contributions by Mr. Kelsey or anyone else will intimidate me into voting a particular way. I would appreciate your straightening out the information on line. Julian